Practically Speaking

As long as the state restricts district revenues while actually redistributing a portion of our tax money to other districts, out-of-district students are going to be attractive as a way of recouping some cash. Our costs rise a little bit more than our revenues every year, so we cut programs and employees to stay within the budget they fix for us in Madison.  Two-thirds state funding does not mean two-thirds of our expenses, but two-thirds of state-wide expense on average.  We get less than that amount; some get more.  It's not about empire; it's an effort to cope.  There is, of course, debate about the bottom line--whether this strategy saves or costs.

Kyle's reply: Revenue sharing certainly complicates the issue (it is one reason some people don't think all that development helps our property taxes stay low).

A look at Elmbrook teacher/staff/administrator ratio to student number and pay/benefit scale comparisons to other districts would be very helpful. 

Yes, that sort of comparison should be included, but there are also variables connected to that information.  A newer or growing district is likely to have newer teachers with smaller salaries and benefits...  ...retaining the best or most experienced teachers will cost more than new hires...a low student-teacher ratio is generally thought to be desirable...this too is complicated.

Kyle's reply: I was thinking more of the entire pay scale schedule comparison. They have it all mapped out: Years of service + Number of additional school credits = a certain % salary increase over base.

It would also be interesting to compare benefits, which can account for about 1/3 additional compensation.  

I wonder if ESB is trying to keep up with Brookfield Academy?

"I wonder if ESB is trying to keep up with Brookfield Academy?"

If so they are running behind. Did you see the summer session offering at Brookfield Academy this year? What does ESD offer?

Perhaps we ought to partner with Brookfield Academy and offer a virtual high school option to ESD.

Betcha that would add some gray to Uncle Matt's goatee!

Intewedm. ESB is way past Brookfield Academy, we have astro turf, we have a proposed black box (theater I think) and we also get to rent space at the Wilson Center for the Arts. Now how much more hoidy toidy can you get. Gives Brookfield Academy something to try and achieve. All of this huge expenditure is tied directly to production of High ACT scores.Why we might even be able to foster the development of some liberal movie star supporting some far left squandering of taxpayer money for need of a bigger black box down the road. It all just stinks out loud.

Perhaps Dr. Gibson deserves a raise.

There is a tool on the right side of the BrookfieldNOW homepage that allows you to scan Educator Salaries.  If you leave the first box in "select" and choose "District Administrator" in the second box, you'll get a list of 24 area superintendents, in schools of varying sizes.  Dr. Gibson is no. 12 on the list at $137K.  The list has a range from $156K to $111K.  There is no real trend in fringe benefits, either.

You are wrong to raise Dr. Gibson's salary in the same breath as a discussion of the upcoming referendum.  We need some focus, people.  This is not about Dr. Gibson's pay, or what's up at Brookfield Academy, or the last referendum, or even dirty trick newspaper adds that misrepresent the facts.  This is about old buildings that need help.  Lets stay on point.

Kyle's reply: This posting was in regard to subject tagging last years' posts. In doing so, I found the posting regarding Dr. Gibson's raise from last year. That news came out  the day before the referendum vote, I believe, at least the posting is tagged April 2, 2007. This is the time of year the board starts talking about these sorts of things. I simply was asking the question of will Dr. Gibson get a hefty raise this year.

I happen to think teacher/administrator salaries and benefits is related to the issue of "old buildings that need help." Our district has a history of not maintaining buildings, in my opinion, because they don't have the funds to do so. 

Kyle, it takes some mental gymnastics to separate the two topics from you original post, but if you honestly think you maintained a separation, so be it.  The agrument is weak because the raise still left our superintendent in the middle of the pack for the region.  It also seems to me that your final conclusion is still flawed.

Go back to the same database, do the same task for "teacher"  You can then scroll throught 6200+ teachers and see that Elmbrook is not at the top of the regional list.  Ah, you might add, but what if Elmbrook hires too many teachers?  The argument would of course follow that low student teacher ratios benefit education.  This dovetails naturally with the high quality results of the district.

I believe that the district spends its annual operational budget on high quality operations.  The state allows local levies to maintain and build physical plant.  I do not wish to see the operational side sacrificed for the physical plant. We should work as the system is designed to work.  When the time comes for major improvements, seek approval from the community with a referendum, and preserve programs that give great results.  

I've said it many times before, and no one has taken me to task that this is a great school system.  As taxpayers, we have to have the right metric on which to evaluate the performance of the system.  That metric is educational results, this system succeeds in spades. I have faith that the administration and school board has the demonstrated ability to make good decisions for our schools, both in operations and in physical plant.  Its too bad all government can't be this effective.

I will challenge Contrarian's analysis of how great a school system we have.  It may be better when compared to some other districts, and it may produce high scores for today's "dumbed down" tests, but the fact is that our public schools and colleges are producing second class scores at best compared to other countries.  Evidence of the lack of real education can be see by just reading the blogs of young people who have poor grammar and spelling abilities.  Watch a program like "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader", or Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments to see just how dumb younger people are.  

Schools do not teach the basics adequately because the curriculum is full of junk of the "indoctrination" type.  I doubt that many of the Elmbrook students could pass the tests that we given in the 50s at Washington HS in Milwaukee.  It's amazing to me that we think the public schools are doing such a good job!  I think as you dumb down generation after generation the teachers and parents are like the frog in the pot on the stove...don't realize it's being cooked and never jumps out.  

Hitler knew that if he had public education he could change things in one generation.  Look at the films of the youth of Germany under him if you think it doesn't happen.  And the contention that more money, equipment, facilities, etc. makes for education is to exhibit a complete lack of understanding on how one is educated.  I don't think any of the great minds of history was educated in a fancy environment.

I do agree that it is public education is "effective", but that is in the minds of the results the government wants, and the proof is that we don't even recognize it.  We just happily pay through the nose to have our next generation brainwashed.  George Orwell had it right!  If you think I'm wrong, please examine the changes in our society since the 50s.  The "flower children" of the 60s are now in charge and it ain't pretty!

Kyle's reply: Wow! "Don't sugar coat it, Butch, tell it to us straight." (Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)

The need for colleges to require some freshmen to take remedial courses (after a separate entrance/placement exam) does make me wonder how accurate of a picture ACT scores are in reflecting a good education. A good education is a difficult thing to measure. 

When I took the ACT, back in the Old Testament days, we did not spend years studying how to take it. We just took it. The fact that school districts spend so much time teaching to the test, not only in the high school years, but also in the elementary years, means that students are missing out on other important subjects like history (not revisionist) and studying the Constitution. But that is a subject for a future blog!

I do hope that the graduates of our school system can structure a better argument than Intewedm presents.

My metrics:  High college entrance exam scores, high rates of college entrance, high Wisconsin test scores, High rates of Advanced Placement in college, Blue ribbon Middle School.  My metrics are also informed by frequent and regular positive interaction with teachers and administrators responsible for my children at 3 schools.

His metrics: performance of young adults on TV shows.

I have no clue what George Orwell or flower children has to do with any of this.

I do know that organizational excellence is no accident, and it exists in this system.  The product speaks for itself.

I also have the pleasure of interacting with a number of bright, young late 20s and early 30s on our staff at my workplace.  Perhaps if Intewedm had some contact with people of this generation in some other medium besides TV, he would understand their true potential.  I don't fear for their lack of intellect, I fear that our generation intends to leave them with huge deficits and crumbling infrastructure, which brings me back to our schools.  We have a responsibility to maintain a positive environment for education which will serve our kids and attract and maintain the best teachers.  We also need to provide facilities that can survive well over the next 30 years.  If we love our kids, we must step up to our responsibilities.

Notice how the rebuttal relies on test scores?  Ignore the facts and just keep making the same argument and how it becomes believable.  The tests have been dumbed down!  As Kyle pointed out, the tests aren't just administered...they are prepared for in order to improve scores.  The REAL test is how our students compare to those in other major countries, and the reality is that we are WAY down on the list in every significant category.  Yes, the product does speak for itself to anyone who knows how to listen.  Is someone brainwashed here?  I have a feeling the reference to "our" generation is not to "my" generation and is probably a "flower child" generation that can't make fair comparisons.  Yep, if we love our kids we will give them "things" like new building, outsized homes, cars, clothes, etc.

Forget things like values, morals, integrity, solid school curriculum, etc.  

Kyle's reply: Er, um, I think I am a "flower child" generation too! Graduated from college in ''73. Thankfully, my more practical side brought me back to reality.

It would be nice if discussion could be less personal in the attacks and more directed to the information? 

But more to the point, I am interested if you have data on how our students fare in real life after graduation from Elmbrook. That would be interesting.

I'll tell you how several have fared which are my kids.  1. Dropped out at 18 went to work for Walgreens and is now a manager for a top caterer due to innate ability to work with the public.  2.  Dropped out at 18 and now is partners with a friend in a home cleaning business.  3.  Graduated and went into the Army, then construction laborer, then police officer, and now working in Afghanistan training their police.  4.  Graduated and worked in construction.  Now is self-employed doing home improvement.  5.  Graduated and has many clerical jobs.  Is now an administrative assistant in sales.

All of them are intelligent but showed no initiative as teenagers.  (I think that's the general story of teens these days.)  I think their stories would have been the same regardless of the school system, and certainly regardless of the "bricks and mortar".

Not every person of a generation reflects the values of that generation, but there is no question that our society now reflects the values of the 60s rather than of the 40s or 50s.  Self-indulgence is the norm!

Jessica Rasmussen reports , "The Elmbrook superintendent will see $5,280 added to his salary for